Interchange Conference Transcript
y:\diwe5net\CLASSES\KWestm0e\CHAT\1Frindle
[Message #1 07:34:19 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
In Carroll's _Alice_, Alice and Humpty Dumpty have the following exchange about words: "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that is all"(163).
Humpty Dumpty's comment suggests that language is more about the *person* who uses words than the words themselves. How does Nick's experience with the word "frindle" support Humpty Dumpty's statement? What does Nick's experience tell us about how words work?
[Message #2 09:46:45 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
The fact that Nick was just an average, grade school kid makes for an interesting plot. It's not like he was english expert trying to invent a new word.
[Message #3 09:47:38 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
RE: #2: So, Laura, anyone can be a "master" of language, to use Humpty-Dumpty's terms?
[Message #4 09:49:06 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Melissa Wood:
Using Frindle as an example, yes I agree. Nick's experience gives the individual power over language.
[Message #5 09:49:11 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
As with any word they have been made up by many people. As you said laura Nick was just an average kid. In study linguistics, "language is universal" someone has to come up with the words right?
[Message #6 09:49:36 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
Yes, anyone can be the master of a language. Think of a little baby. When he says "dah, dah," his father knows what he is referring to. Another example is when biological twins have their own language amongst themselves. No one really understands their communication but themselves.
[Message #7 09:50:52 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
Taireeq:I agree, it should not be a matter of age or educational background that defines whom can shape a language. A langauge is just that, a comman way that EVERYONE can use to communicate, and by that definition, everyone can shape and change it.
[Message #8 09:51:44 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
Does Nick have unlimited control over creation of his word, though?
[Message #9 09:52:04 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
Nick's individual power with the word "frindle" did start an uproar, because individuals only want to stick with what has already been set in stone (the dictionary). No where does it say that today I can't make up a word.
[Message #10 09:53:09 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
The limit to Nick's power is the willingness of others to accept his word. If the others kids had just scoffed at him, the word would never have become popular.
[Message #11 09:53:10 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
No, after he makes up his word, it spreads out of his control. No one person should be able to control the creation with absolute power.
[Message #12 09:55:13 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
Dr. Westman, No I don't believe that there should be a limit to a word, because it hasn't been set in stone. When someone starts something new there is always a controversy.
[Message #13 09:56:37 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
RE: #12:Oh, I agree, Tareeq, but I guess I'm asking whether the story suggests that Nick may not have been able to have complete control over his word, once he put it out there for others to use.
[Message #14 09:56:40 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
This reminds me of slang. Just try to stop it. It doesn't happen. Yet a decade later, the words are obsolete.
[Message #15 09:58:36 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
Our current english language is a melting pot of other languages. Many words that we use now are entirely different then their original intent; is that a bad thing?
[Message #16 09:59:09 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
What would this world be like without controvery of some sort. Pretty boring I think. When something is out of the "norm" (like purple hair, or Jennifer Lopez and a revealing dress) people start to talk and question just as they did in frindle.
[Message #17 09:59:32 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Melissa Wood:
I do not think that he has complete control over his word. He loses control the second the other kids start using it.
No, I don't think that's a bad thing-that's just language evolving.
[Message #18 09:59:56 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
RE: #15: _Frindle_ suggests it is, I think -- would the rest of you agree? That is, the story is a call for us to recognize the fluidity of language.
What makes Nick's challenge ok, though, and not just a game?
[Message #19 10:01:37 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
Taureeq: Oh, that is good and very true. Controversy drives much social interaction and attracts attention to the subject at hand much more redialy then the usual and mundane.
[Message #20 10:01:39 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
Knight, I agree that language is in a melting pot of other languages. That is what makes Americans different from say Chinese or Hispanics. When it all boils down our languages all derieved from the same places.
[Message #21 10:02:21 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
I think that's what makes languages so fascinating--the fact that no one person can control it. That's not a bad thing; it's just reality. The fact that Nick was applying thoughts from english class and actually experimenting with a new word made it an innocent game. His plot was not evil at all.
[Message #22 10:03:31 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
****If you like, you can switch conferences and join another. Be sure to read all the messages before entering the conversation. Or, you can stay here!
[Message #23 10:04:28 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
Dr. Westman: I think that Nick's challenge is ok because others took up his word. If language belongs to us all, then 'majority' decides that it wants to use a new word, just like in _Frindle_
[Message #24 10:04:52 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
Dr. Westman Nick's challenge is okay, because he believed that if anyone could make up a word why couldn't he. The key is he believed that his word could be a word and he stood up for what he thought was right.
[Message #25 10:05:50 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
We've been talking about the freedom of language so far. But what does Nick's loss of control (or the difficulties he faces as he implements his word) tell us about how language works?
[Message #26 10:08:13 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
I think it tells us that the individual has little power in deciding language. If we could all control langauge as an individual, then we would all be speaking a diffrent language and unable to communicate properly (Just like in CarrollÆs _Alice_).
[Message #27 10:08:24 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
Language is almost like a conceptual theory. You can't sit down one day and rewrite the entire English language. It's formed as a compilation of thoughts and ideas over centuries. Nick's loss of control of his word shows that. People as a whole chose to change their language.
[Message #28 10:09:35 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
RE: #26: So, language is a collaborative effort, with "gatekeepers" like the editors of the dictionary? Nick's success at getting his word in the dictionary suggests that the book may end up endorsing "the rules" in the end...
[Message #29 10:09:45 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Melissa Wood:
I think that it shows us how easily words and meanings are conveyed. Does anyone know the time frame between the time Nick makes the Frindle and when he's on CNN? Or does the book not tell us?
[Message #30 10:12:23 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
It was within the same schoolyear. He was still in 5th grade.
[Message #31 10:13:29 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
Dr Westman: I tend to agree with that statement about "the rules". It shows that there must be some amount of structure in language; there are always rules that keep order, even in language.
[Message #32 10:14:12 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
RE: #31: So, perhaps we could claim that a book about rebellion becomes a book about the value of the rules?
[Message #33 10:15:28 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Karin Westman:
****To wrap up this part of our conversation, take a look back over the conference postings, and offer a final posting here:
Identify two themes you see developing in Clement's _Frindle_ and an example to illustrate each one.
[Message #34 10:18:12 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Laura Heck:
One theme in _Frindle_ is that of creativity. If Nick hadn't had the original thought of making up a word, none of the events that followed could have happened. The word "frindle" wouldn't have ended up in the dictionary. A second theme is the power of language. The fact that an ordinary boy could end up creating a word and having it accepted as a real word is amazing.
[Message #35 10:19:06 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
I don't think that Nick losses control. But a stubborn ( Mrs. Granger) society saying that only scholars can write/make up words in our world. I don't think it is any one persons' place to say what is right or wrong or even what goes.
[Message #36 10:20:47 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Knight Patrick:
1> Thinking outside of the normal is a positive.
Nick is diffrent then the rest of the kids. This is shown in a mostly positive light, minus the confusion that it often creates.
2> Language is moldable
If somebody --like Nick-- creates a word and the majority pick up on it, then it has the ability to change the english language.
[Message #37 10:21:40 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Melissa Wood:
1.) The idea that there are unlimited meaning of words ex.) frindle-pen.
2.) There is minimal control over created words ex.) once Nick creates the word 'frindle' and other people start using it, he loses control over the word.
[Message #38 10:22:00 AM, Thursday, January 30, 2003]
Taureeq Bradley:
I agree with laura about a theme for Frindle. It is a book of creativity and also how language is universal. Creating a word and having the world back you up is cool.